WHO WAS MARY MAGDALENE?
There are many books written about Mary Magdalene, varying in their accounts depending on the source and their motivation. I myself have channeled a book about her life in France called ‘Mary Magdalene, Way of the Rose’. Information about Mary Magdalene can be discovered from many varied sources such as literature, historical accounts, fiction and new age books as well as with the discovery of scriptures such as the Nag Hammadi, which was initially kept hidden but has now been exposed, which has brought so much to light. One may also study hidden messages and symbols shown in renaissance art from the varied occult and secret societies. In the book The Woman with the Alabaster Jar the author Margaret Starbird set out to refute the notion that Mary Magdalene was married to Jesus after reading Holy Blood Holy Grail, but in her research found evidence that made her realise the hidden truth that it was indeed so very true. Although many sacred sites were destroyed and in their places churches built, the churches contained many clues and keys which they borrowed from ancient symbolism.
Much of my own understanding and personal belief about her life has come from my own channeled messages and meditations. I always always urge people to start with tuning into MM by just sitting with her and experiencing her directly, rather than reading outside sources. She will come to you as you need to experience Her in the right way for you. For as well as being a person, she is also a consciousness. So as you do your own research you must trust and listen your own heart for your own truth within, for that is where she is.
Therefore, there are differing opinions of who Mary Magdalene actually was. The following is not fact and cannot be proved in any way, it is my own personal beliefs from a passion causing me to follow my own research and inner meditations over a number of years now.
Many now agree that she was most likely both relative and wife of Jesus Christ and a Nazarene Princess. She has been called a Hasmonean Princess from the Jewish lineage of Sumer (Iraq) Mespotamia and they lived in exile in a village they ruled called Migdalal, 3 miles north of Tiberius on shore of the sea of Galillee and near Nazareth, hence they were known as the Nazarenes. Their Essence tribe are said to derive from the Mandaeans from Mespotamia who went also to Egypt. Babylon is a kingdom within the Iraq (Sumer) part of Mesopotamia which also spreads through Iran (Persia) into Syria, also lands of the Amorites. These kingdoms worshipped Ishtar Goddess who became Isis in Egypt. The name Issa (Jesus) derives from Isis. The Amorite Kingdom of Mari also worshipped Ishtar. The three wise men were Kings of Persia following the star of Ishtar / Bethlehem / Venus.
It seems strange that these most ancient lands that hold the keys to our holy bloodlines have been desecrated. So many of these most important monuments, cities, artefacts, and sacred vortex sites of Mesopotamia regions such as in Syria, Iran, Iraq have been destroyed by wars with our western empire in recent years, leaving many questions open as to the motivations and truths behind these wars.
Others also say that she was an Egyptian Princess and a Parthian Princess or Queen, as daughter of Juba II, the King of Mauretania and wife, Queen Cleopatra Selene who was the daughter of Antony and Cleopatra. Like Jeshua the Christ she was related to Cleopatra, who it is said also had a second secret daughter from another secret affair with Caesar. She is also said to be the daughter of King Cyrus, also a Persian name and he was a King of the Benjamite tribe. Indeed the Persian empire was founded by a King called Cyrus the Great (Maxi), and the Persian empire also ruled Egypt in 525 BC. Both resonate for me as I feel the Egyptians and Persian energies to be very connected.
Her mother was also said by some to be Eucharis of Magdala, her sister was Martha of Bethany, and most agree that her brother was Lazarus, Lazare de Béthanie. Lazure means blue. Lapis lazuli means ‘stone of the blue’ and was sacred to Egyptians and occultists. The Prince (King) Lazarus is said to have been a disciple of John the Baptist along with Jesus. He is better known for being raised from the dead by Jesus and this was actually part of a death ritual initiation ceremony. He went to France with the Marys and is also linked to Cyprus and Malta. He is linked to Marseilles but I feel him in Rennes les Chateaux.
Joseph of Arimathea was a wealthy tin merchant and relative to the royal tribe and had ships that sailed all over the world. They were also related in royal blood to the druids of the Celtic lands. Hence the Egyptian - Celt connections, such as Egyptian remains being found in the British isles within Ireland and Scotland. Princess Scota came to the Celtic isles and gave Scotland its name, and some believe she was really Ankhesenamun, daughter of Akhenaton and Nefertiti, and possible wife of Tutankhamen, recent archeological findings seem to also confirm this. Blue Egyptian beads have been discovered on ancient royal dressed mummies and other archaeological digs in sacred sites in France, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Britain. She came to Scotland and remained in Ireland, a truly sacred Atlantean isle.
Jesus and Mary were of the same royal family. Jesus was said to be an Egyptian King which was why he was such a threat to the Romans. Mother Mary’s mother was also said to be Anne a Celtic Queen linked to Cornwall, and by others she is said to be daughter of one of Cleopatra’s daughters. Anne perhaps is one and the same as Celopatra's daughter.
The word Magdalene itself means ‘tower’ and the Magdalene represents the bridge of Heaven and Earth - unification of two opposites. There was also said to be a tower in Migdala. She is the tower on the hill. Glastonbury and St Marie de la Mer in France are both ancient towers on hills with lakes around them that are linked to the Magdalene, as is the sacred place of Bagno Vignoni in Tuscany. ‘Amygdala’ is an anagram of Magdalene and it is the part of the brain that governs emotions such as fight or flight (fear), and that opens during the illumination of meditation, as fear is transmuted into love. It is an almond shape. Almonds are of course native to Iran (Persia) and the surrounding areas. In occult symbolism the almond shape also represents the top of the ankh, the fish of the Essenes, and the opening of the yoni.
Mer (Priestess) Magdalena (tower), High Priestess holding the light of Ishtar, Isis, Aphrodite, Kali. These are all one Goddess. To be raised in the temples was a high honour and to be a High Initiate one would have been from a prominent or royal family. Egyptian Kings ruled with their partners known as Amun wives. They were the high priestesses who held the power and often the lineage came through the female line.
There is also a sect of Nazarenes that are convinced that Mary Magdalene is an Ethiopian Princess who came from Migdala, an ancient and important trading town in Ethiopia. In fact both Mary Magdalene and Jesus have both been named as a descendants of the Queen of Sheba linked to Ethiopia, and King Solomon. Many say there are Ethiopian links with Egypt too. The Queen of the Sheba and King Solomon are said to have a love affair producing a son. The late Haile Salassie in Ethiopia was called Lion of Judah and claimed to be of this same lineage as Jesus and of the Queen of Sheba. Because of the links between Mespotamia to Egypt and Ethiopia to Egypt, all of the above could possibly relate. Queen of Sheba and King Solomon’s love affair is also of course symbolic, for the love of Jesus and Magdalene. Some believe Queen of Sheba be a title not a land, meaning Queen of the Stars and that this means that they are descendants from the Queen of Stars. Indeed Issa (Jesus) means son of Ishtar, or Sheba, meaning star. Issa is the seed of the star, of Isis, Ishtar Venus Sheba. The words sabbath (seven) and sabbat are also related to the word Sheba which also means seven. Seventh Heaven - Sefekh, Seba, Sheba, Heba, Heva, Hovah.
FROM WHENCE THEY CAME
Matthew 2:13-23
"When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”[a]
When Herod realised that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:
“A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”[b]
The Return to Nazareth
After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child’s life are dead.”
So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene."
MARY MAGDALENE IN THIS ROSE LINEAGE
Whatever the historical truth of who Mary Magdalene was, as well as being a living person and a guide in spirit, it is the symbolism of her consciousness that is most relevant. We each feel into our own beliefs and receive the consciousness in our unique way, and the following is my own.
Mary Magdalene symbolises the return of the Divine Feminine ray, after the distortion of Divine Feminine energies by the patriarchy. Her recent rise from sinner to saint represents the journey of all women. She represent the return of power to all wombs. MM symbolises the Holy Grail not just because of her children with Jesus Christ, but because the holy grail exists within us all.
Symbolic of all women, as Queens robbed of their womb divinity and status, Magdalena was dishonoured and robbed of her status and placed in the scriptures as a prostitute. Yet Mary Magdalene was an initiate from the Temple of Isis where she was taught by Mother Mary. The Priestesses of this ancient Temple of Isis are universal - the same Goddess teachings were anchored in by priestesses of ancients cultures all over the world and we have ALL been reborn to today’s times.
Therefore, because of her treatment in the last 2000 years Mary Magdalene is a wonderful symbol for our hidden empowered priestess within, as she symbolises the disempowered and abused Goddess who has risen again in the fullness of love and empowerment despite her treatment.
We celebrate here in this lineage that Mary Magdalene was most assuredly an Egyptian priestess from the Temple of Isis. Mary is a Egyptian Isis title, from Mer (water, sea - the key symbol of the priestess) meaning Priestess. The letter M, 13th letter of the alphabet, is indeed the symbol of water in Egyptian heiroglyphs. Mother Mary was a priestess of the Rose line and the teacher of Mary Magdalene in a circle of 12, with Mother Mary as the 13th.
Jeshua and Mary Magdalene were from the same temples, related and married, practised sacred sexuality and conceived children. Mary Magdalene and Jeshua together formed The Way of Love as a sacred couple in divine relationship, bringing in Christ-Sophia (or heiros gamos) consciousness and Light. The Way of the Rose (which was also called The Order of Magdala) is the female spiritual path of The Way that holds the sacred Light codes of the Divine Feminine and the teachings from the Isis Temples. They were aware that the day would come when the initiated priestess from these ancient lineages who hold these codes would re-awaken, and once again anchor this Light into the matrix of humanity. That time is now.
Together they worked with meditation, light anchoring, healing, herbs and crystals and so on. They were aligned to the Light, in the same way as other great priestesses and masters and prophets and sages throughout the world and ages and religions and tribes.
The Essence tribe were prepared for the initiation of their King Jeshua upon the cross, and afterwards it was Mary Magdalene their Queen who healed him, with other female priestesses who held the energy. She was the first person he appeared to after the resurrection. After his initiation, Jeshua lived. He was said to go to the East, and in Kashmir there he is said to have a tomb that you can go and see. He is mentioned in ancient Tibetan scrolls and teachings. Some believe he also had time in France.
Mary Magdalene went by boat to France, along with her children including her daughter Sarah and Mother Mary, as well as other sisters and brothers of the Rose. St Marie de la Mer, is the place where the boat of the Mary’s initially arrived. The church there is said to be built on the site of an ancient Artemis temple, Artemis is associated with Isis and Aphrodite. You can research the many legends in France about this, and visit the shrines dedicated to her in the places she is said to have lived - from St Marie de la Mer to Marseilles, Rennes Les Bains and Sainte Baume, They were led by Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy tin merchant with many ships, who was the brother of Mother Mary. Maximus was another trusted guide and there were many others.
It is my belief that they were on a quest to spread and anchor Light in the Celtic lands with water and Light, and their tribe did this across France and England, including Devon and Avalon. Mary Magdalene spent the rest of her beautiful life living and teaching The Way from caves in South France working with the healing waters there and encoding them. Some say she had long red hair (like Anna) and hardly ever wore clothes. I have been led to believe in my meditations that this is symbolic. She was of nature. The red associated with her is actually linked to the womb work she did as a womb priestess. Apparently, there is an ancient Egyptian Isis order that still exists in India today where they wear red - see the book Isis Goddess of Egypt and India by Chris Morgan.
You can visit her caves and the sacred springs in France. The old royal families and Queens of France used to make secret visits to these caves. We have looked at how Magdalene means the tower as well as the Amygdala (the gland in the brain that controls fear) and the Magdalene tower of unification of opposites happens within the holy grail. The holy grail is Sacred Female power, the Sacred womb. The Magdalene consciousness within us holds the keys to both the lighting of the amygdala and pineal glands, and your own sacred grail or sacred womb can show you the way. The sacred grail is the sacred ROSE. The womb of the Goddess, your sacred womb connects you direct to Her Within You.
As MM a High Priestess from the Isis - Ishtar - Inanna temple lineage, MM held the Light of the Goddess. She was one with Goddess (daughter of Goddess) just like Jesus Christ was one with God (son of God). They both held the Christed-Sophia codes of Divine Feminine & Divine Masculine in unity within them both. He went to her to be taught by her in the same way she did with him - they were equal teachers - guides - lovers - twins. Mary Magdalene and Jeshua together formed The Way of Love as a sacred couple in divine relationship, bringing in Christ-Sophia (or heiros gamos) consciousness and Light. And even though they both continued their work after the crucifixion in different parts of the world, they did meet again too, both in the material plane as well as working together in the ethereal.
All Goddesses are aspects of the Great One Cosmic Mother. They are different expressions of her energies. Some of them are also aspects of each other. What do I mean by this? Many people have theories of who was who, and the truth is it doesn’t matter, as over time many have merged and become confused, but they are linked back to the same one Goddess who has different qualities. What does matter is how the energies flow to you. Believe what you are shown in your meditations only, as there is no right or wrong way - and Goddess comes in different ways to different people as we are all different.
This may sound far out to some, but the energies of MM from the one Goddess are encoded into the souls of many of us who walk this path and make identify as star seed, or light shower, or light worker. Remember, as well as a person, She is a consciousness.
First we took on codes direct from the Goddess into our souls way at the beginning of time in pre Lemuria. There many of us gathered in the Great Goddess temple and made vows to hold the Goddess codes for life after life to come until it was time again to wake them, and many of us took the frequencies into our souls, from the beautiful giant crystals that embedded Her light into us. If you are reading this then you will have had lives on other planets and come from other planets, some of us more new to Earth, often trained on other planets such as Sirius which works closely with Gaia, often originating from stars such as Pleiades, Andromeda, or less known ones. We contain all the codes for we are star seed, which means we originate from another world, dimension, or planet.
We are now just awakening to who we are, to the codes from the Marys of this Isis-Ishtar-Aphrodite lineage, which the rose and ankh of Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary represent. Many of us hold their codes and flames and colours in our auras; both agreed pre birth, and also some of us have taken them on during this lifetimes either in meditations or in dream space. This is why so many of us feel great links to Rose Beings and can remember her/their lives as if they were our own. We most probably have had key lives with well known roses, or hold an aspect of their soul / are of the same soul group. Well known roses such as Marie Antoinette, Mother Mary, Princess Diana or other key (true) royals spanning ancient history, and brothers such as Jesus, Krishna, Lazarus, St Germain, Merlin, Arthur and so on. True royals are those of genuine spiritual nobility.
Other codes are now also flooding in from our own stars and this information is changing daily at present and unique for each of us. By codes I mean light essence and symbols that hold certain frequencies.
Most of us who have held these codes since pre Lemuria have lived many, many lives on Gaia, as well as other stars, as priests and priestesses. As in truth there have been many many civilisations all over Gaia worshipping Goddess, spanning many, many thousands of years. There have also been many ‘falls’ - like the fall of Atlantis or the fall of Egypt. The time is safe now to awaken again, but we need to shed traumatic memories from more recent lives of abuse from the patriarchy, to heal the fear of speaking out and being our true selves.
This fear is a collective one for us all, both men and women, and the trauma of both genders being wounded from the patriarchy is so deep that everyone will have clearing to do on some level regarding this. But below this trauma lies an empowered priestess holding Goddess codes ready to awaken and rise without shame but with true grace. There is no fear to be had, We are in the Light! Our work on this most beautiful planet of Gaia is most needed right now. Every single one of us stars must awaken now and work together to hold light frequency here in the physical realms of Gaia, who is a divine template essential for the balance of the whole galaxy.
Both Magdalene consciousness and the spirit of Mary Magdalene have returned to guide us in this process.
As you work with MM you will get to know her energy and realise how beautiful and soft and gentle and watery it is. Her energy can come in many ways though at different times as she brings in differing roses, colours and energies. Sometimes she might come to us on a blue ray and other times upon a pink or green. She also comes to some with the red rose of sacred sexuality and sacred menstruation. Or as the Black Madonna. There are many different Rose orders and there may be one in particular that stands out for you.
Mary Magdalene has links to Sirius, like all the great Ascended Masters who hold the blue rays. And like the blue rays she also is associated with the 8 pointed Star of Venus, the 5 pointed Pentagram Star drawn by Venus (and it is the 5 star we see in many flowers and fruits upon the trees of Gaia), and the 6 star of united masculine and feminine / Heaven and Earth. All symbols of the Goddess, like the ankh and the rose. It is this the Christed Venus star that so many masters reside upon as it is the star of pure pure love. The star that draws the flower of life, that every 8 years draws a pentagram in the night sky. Many beings come to Venus to purify before coming to Earth or upon leaving Earth as it is such pure high vibration of love. This is the Christed Venus star that so many masters reside upon as it is the star of pure pure love.
Mary Magdalene and Aphrodite are actually the same Goddess of Love. When MM was alive, as a High Priestess of the waters, she embodied, held and was one with the Aphrodite & Isis-Ishtar energies and so they are the same Goddess frequency. That is why the Botticeli Birth of Venus painting from 1486 shows the Goddess Aphrodite as MM. The Goddess in that painting was of Mary Magdalene painted as Aphrodite. Notice the hands on the heart and on the yoni entrance - the 2 power points of the priestess, and of course the affiliation with water and the white shell, more Goddess symbols. A near replica of this painting was made as a carving called the statue of Mary Magdalene in 1515, once in a church in Augsburg, it is now in the Louvre collection. (See images below).
And so it was ongoing knowledge by her followers, that when MM was alive, as a High Priestess of the waters, she embodied, held and was one with the Aphrodite & Isis-Ishtar energies and they are the same Goddess frequency.
After her passing in France, Mary Magdalene was initially worshipped by the Royal French and British Kings and Queens, by the Cathars and many other spiritual groups, but they were later wiped out in a genocide by the growing power of the patriarchal catholic church and their secret societies, forcing the knowledge underground, and at the same time there was a mass genocide of women and womb.
Until today.
What is this rose line, this Egyptian line to which she belonged?
I invite you to ask her yourself.
I invite you to go to the Rose temple in meditation with Mother Mary and the sisterhood of the Rose and connect with Mary Magdalene there.
Feel the lineage beyond her stemming right back to ancient times, to Isis - Ishtar - Lemuria.
Ask for information here, and receive your answers in your heart in the form of symbolism, colour, words.
Let Her be your teacher.
WHO IS THE BLACK MADONNA?
“I am She that will heal you. I will take your pain and transform it into Light, so you have no fear of me me, like the black stone I am full of light, like the night sky I am full of stars. I am pure love. I am deep black night, I am velvet, I am the womb. I will soak up all your fear and transform them. Yes I am the Magdalene.”
Many of the Black Madonna statues are said to be powerful shamanic objects carved from special black stone fallen from the galaxy holding powers of light and that is why they give out emanations of light. These objects are so powerful that they are hidden in plain sight - on display in churches. The word shaman means “one who sees in the dark” and Mary Magdalene is the shaman, represented by these Black Madonnas.
I believe that the Black Madonna is both Magdalene and Isis Ishtar representing the hidden mystery teachings, the black cloak of the Nazarene, the black of the cave womb wisdom within us, the black path of facing fears to find the Light. She is of course also black because her skin was most highly likely to be dark. The Black Madonna is an aspect of Mary Magdalene. Mary Magdalene is not just the Black Madonna, but this is one side of her. Mary Magdalene can come to us in many ways, and when she comes as Black Madonna she is an expression of the great all powerful hidden black womb mother.
There are many shrines of the Black Madonna in France and they are mostly representations of Mary Magdalene. The Black Madonna at St Marie de la Mer is said to to be St Sarah Tamar, saint of the Gipsy’s (a word that derives from the word Egyptian) and I believe it represents both Sarah and Magdalena as they both held the light of Isis Ishtar. There they call her Saint Sara Kali. Sarah Tamar is the daughter of Mary Magdalene and Jesus, and many others have called her an Egyptian Princess / Priestess. ‘Sarah’ means Princess, Kali is the Indian Goddess and means ‘Black’. Sarah Tamar means Princess Tamar. She is from the same Egyptian order as the Marys, and like Mary Magdalene she wears red, because as the daughter of Mary Magdalene she took on the priestess rites and ways. Back because of the symbolism of the hidden mysteries of the womb, and again, black because of dark skin colour.
The Magdalene came to me in a dream one night with dark skin and a red cloak, and on other occasions I have had visions of a gipsy in red and gold. In this aspect, both MM and Sarah Tamar symbolise sacred sexuality, the womb alive with juicy ecstatic feeling of feeling like pure woman. Imagine you are Sara Kali. How does that feel?
“I remember being told by a medicine woman in the Amazon, "Do you know why they are really cutting down the rain forest? Because it is wet and dark and tangled and feminine.” (Alberto Villoldo)
Mary Magdalene is pure Light but was transformed by those who feared her path of truth and the powerful wisdoms of the womb.
Her power and light never left her, she remained there silently until those who were ready could find her again.
She was never disempowered, she was full and empowered, waiting for us.
She is at one with Light, she is the female soul essence and partner of Jeshua, the Christed Light, so she is pure compassion and forgiveness and knows how things are meant to be. She wears a black hood as one of her aspects comes from the night, of the deepest emotions buried beneath you, the shadows of the wild woman, the cry of the wolf, the wild winds and the rains. She is the tide of the subconscious instinctual emotions. She is of the deep dark cave that represents the moon, the waters, the subconscious - all things dark and wet and tangled - all things feminine.
This black holds the most brilliant Light. In her aspect as the Black Madonna, Magdalena will brings you a black obsidian egg. Within this egg is a brilliant white light that is the cosmic centre, a light vortex. The egg sucks up all shadow and transforms it into white brilliance. And yet she is also the beautiful light of the sunlight on the still waters of the subconscious, pure and loving and sweet and beautiful.
People are afraid of the feminine, but within this darkness of the inner shadows and fears we must face, we will find truth, liberation, illumination. Yes, beautiful light, like the stars of the night sky or the seed of life in the black velvet womb. She is true grace, and true beauty she is all powerful. She is your healer and your sweet loving guide. She will soak up and transform your emotional pains to light. So you can call upon this part of her as the Black Madonna to heal emotional pain and trauma. She will lead you to the places and people and situations that you need for your healing.
So Mary Magdalene does to us in so many forms from the shamanic healer facing deep truths sometimes as Black Madonna, as a guide with sweetness and love in soft watery blues, greens and pinks, teaching us about Sacred Sexuality and divine relationship in her reds, shining upon us our own inner sovereignty in the golds and in luminescent white in her white priestess dress under her black cloak she brings the Christed Light…. and many many more….
Amongst her many gifts she has great knowledge of the natural world - you may see her naked living in caves that smell of burning incense and herbs, working with the waters.
Meditate with her regularly and she will tell you what you need to know.
*Read more in my book 'Mary Magdalene The Way of the Rose' by Ishtara Ammuna Rose
🌹Feeling so blessed and filled with unconditional love and truth after this insightful reading.
I was seeking what it means to be a priestess of the order of the rose and Mary Magdalene as i have recently re-membered of being a Priestess of the Rose Order and of Mary Magdalene. On top of that i came here on Earth from Sirius which explains the deep connection with Mother Earth, roses and the Divine Feminine.
My life right now is at the cross roads and i am seeking for my life mission.
Perhaps connecting in meditation with MM will bring some clarity and guidance on this and the way to move forward that is in alignment with my higher purpose.
I…
Wow!! Amazing read on the life of Mary Magdalene life.
The is beautiful story and very well written. I was looking for something to read about her life and this has been very uplifting.
I am glad that I found your website and this specific page on the life of Mary Magdalene. It is very inspiring to know of other women, who has faced trials in their and stayed strong and full of courage.
I am looking forward to ready and learning more about this beautiful lady, who has left her spirit, light and understanding so that other may learn to find their way.
To the all authors who have written this story, it is so beautiful. Iam filled with…